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How to Thrive & Perform Athletically on a High-Carb, Low-Fat Vegan Diet

By September 30, 2013August 7th, 2023116 Comments

Ask and ye shall receive.  Today is Durianrider day on the podcast.  And he has a message for you:

Carb the f$%@ up!

Aka Harley Johnstone, “Durianrider” is a self-avowed health vigilante committed to increasing public awareness of the benefits of a high carbohydrate, low-fat whole food plant-based lifestyle.  A lifestyle modeled upon Doug Graham’s book The 80/10/10 Diet*, or what is more commonly referred to as fruitarian — a dietary protocol based predominantly upon eating copious amounts of fruit.  Let’s just say it’s not uncommon for Harley to proudly devour upwards of 70 bananas a day.

In this regard, Harley is not alone.  Although still on the fringe in terms of mainstream awareness and popularity, the 80/10/10 program is one that is gaining popularity (check out my podcast interviews with Michael Arnstein and Mac Danzig for more).

But what distinguishes Harley from fellow healthy lifestyle advocates is his unique, personal style.

Outspoken and unequivocal, Harley doesn’t mince words.  At times acerbic, and often on the perimeter of completely outlandish, Harley is a lightning rod for controversy — a role he relishes.  Proponents of “fad diets” hawking unhealthy and unethical programs or snake oil products get called out.  Taken to the mat.  And on occasion, name-calling is involved.

And don’t even get him started on how he feels about the currently über-popular low-carb / no-carb / ketosis-based diets pushing high protein and copious amounts of fat.

His fans are passionate.  His critics equally so.

But make no mistake — behind the larger-than-life personality, Harley is in many ways a regular guy leading a simple and active life, committed to helping people feel as good as he does, primarily via his YouTube channel.  A guy frustrated by all the confusing and misleading health, diet and fitness information penetrating the internet, he’s like Howard Beale (Peter Finch) in the 1976 movie “Network” screaming, “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take this anymore!”

Durianrider may not be everyone’s cup of tea.  I get it.  So does he.  And he’s fine with that.  But regardless of any preconceived opinions you may harbor, I implore you to listen with an open mind.

His message is powerful.  And for the record – I like the guy.

I hope you enjoy the show!

For some background on the Harley ethos, check out this short video: Why is Durianrider So Aggressive?


*Disclosure: Books and products denoted with an asterisk are hyperlinked to an affiliate program. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to and affiliated sites.


  • BYOL says:

    Great talk. Glad this finally happened!

    I think DR might have been a little under carbed for the first half, but he certainly got riled up once you got him talking about paleo. Great as always

  • Monique says:

    Freaking love Harley and Freelee! Everyone loves a straight shooter and these guys are the real deal.

  • Petar says:

    great interview, thanks Rich & Harley!

  • dlinnell says:

    I was really looking forward to that interview but it ended up being pretty confusing and contradictory on a lot of levels. Interesting guy and subject matter but I kind of came away just shaking my head after that one.

  • lee says:

    I agree with @dlineeli.
    Harley always sounds convincing until you consider what he’s saying. For example, I agree that no one should be too sedentary, but for those of us with office jobs and a less bohemian lifestyle, is 80/10/10 feasible or even wise? He’s so stuck in his own world he can’t seem to contemplate that not all of us get to bike thousands of miles whenever we choose.
    Another thing: he dismisses Ben Greenfield’s accomplishments without acknowledging that Ben just completed an Ironman and did quite well.
    Another thing: I wish Rich had asked him about fat — which is a major difference between Rich’s own recommendations and Harely’s. The 80/10/10 crowd always seem to be accusing people of “doing it wrong” despite also claiming it’s the easiest diet in the world…and from what I’ve seen, fat is usually the sticking point.
    Another thing: I find the way he parades Freelee (his girldfriend) around as his model/experiment in her underwear and bra to be downright sexist. We get it — you have a skinny girlfriend. But is it healthy?
    Another thing: did he just brag about looking like a Holocaust survivor? Is this the new goal? And worse, is that what he’s trying to convince the next generation to look like?
    Rich, I loved your book and you seem like a force for good, and I also love that you invite many different voices onto your show — but I felt like you were so happy to have him on that might have let him off a little easy.
    And finally, on a positive note: I do love that Harley calls people out on their contradictions. Sorry for doing the same here (albeit in a less obnoxious manner, I hope).

  • Aaron Kester says:

    For anyone looking for more info on Jeff Novick’s opinion on 80/10/10 as mentioned in the podcast:

    Durianrider actually did make a few posts in this thread as well

  • Guest says:

    I am a big fan of Rich’s podcasts (even though I am not a vegan myself) but in my opinion, durianrider got a bit out of his way here. I know that he aims to be controversial and he has certainly achieved that goal on this podcast but some of his claims and even accusations were not as well founded as he says they were. His point of emphasizing on his weight and the weight of his girlfriend (how skinny they were) by comparing them to looking like Holocaust survivors was absolutely unnecessary.

    I am a fan because Rich has all kinds of people on his snow but it seems that thi

  • Lena Katharina Netrval says:


    I think that everyone has to find a way of eating that is best suited for his/her lifestyle and we can all agree, I assume, that certain foods are not as healthy as they are advertised to be or as we have been told to think they are.

    But bashing others (i.e. Paleo, NSNG, Atkins etc) the way Durianrider does it – with mostly unfounded claims – takes the whole thing a bit too far.

    I personally follow Vinnie Tortorich’s NSNG and it is what’s working for me (I am an athlete as well). And all those following NSNG know that Vinnie has a big vegan fan base which he treats just as everybody else – something that Durianrider can’t seem to do with people that do not follow his lifestyle.

  • Greg Vick says:

    Why would you have this idiot on your show? Sorry, but I’ve unsubscribed from your show … No more emails, and no more tweets. This guy is just a fucking idiot!

  • JasonRH says:

    I am not a vegan (although I try to be plant based as much as possible) and I eat everything, but I find Vinnie to be the most outlandish of all of them. Vinnie’s recommendations have very little science behind them, he argued against the china study because it was too big and took place over too long of a time, WHAT?!? Thats what makes it a real study. Vinnie also argues for coffee with a stick of butter in it, great breakfast Vinnie!

  • Kevin M. says:

    Jason, if you listen to Vinnie you would know that he actually hates the bulletproof coffee because it doesnt give you any nutrients.

  • richroll66 says:

    Thanks for the feedback everyone. I very much appreciate the input and I am listening. Lots of great guests coming up – stick around.

  • JasonRH says:

    I have only listened to Vinnie a couple of times, but I know that on this podcast he argued for the coffee/butter combo as being a good meal. That said, I do overlap a lot with Vinnie in terms of diet (lots of fruits and vegetables, I do eat meat, chicken and fish to some extent, I try to avoid sugar etc.), but I just have a problem with some of the claims that I have heard him make. I mean, Durianrider does the same thing too to prove a point. Should I really pour a lot of processed sugar on cereal as durianrider argues? Should I really eat as much meat as vinnie claims we should? I guess we are all different with what works for us, but these guys all end up losing me when they make some of these claims to prove a point. I just think you need to take everything all these people say with a grain of salt and figure out your own plan. I do appreciate the different viewpoints though on this podcast and I think Rich gives a great platform for these different people to express their ideas.

    BUT, I definitely don’t appreciate the Holocaust victims analogy. Come on now.

  • richroll66 says:

    Hi Greg – thanks for the feedback. Truly sorry to lose you as a listener. Hope you will consider returning – lots of really interesting and diverse guests coming up. If not, I wish you well on your journey.

  • Donnie Hall says:

    Rich, glad you took the leap to do this episode and didn’t shy away from the impending controversy. I don’t agree with everything (maybe not even most) that Harley has to say but that doesn’t mean I can’t learn from it. In fact, if you look past his antics he says some really good things. Everyone has to figure out what works for them being key. Those that have threatended to stop listening because of this episode don’t really want to learn and grow. Keep them coming!

  • Nadia says:

    I started out enjoying the podcast, I find it interesting to see other perspectives, even if I don’t agree with them. But then when he started bad mouthing Lustig as a low-carbohydrate guy, I started to doubt his ability to research. I am less familiar with other peoples work that he mentioned, but I know Lustig’s quite well. Lustig is anti refined sugar, not Carbohydrates, he likes Fruit, calls it “God’s Antidote”. He looks at the science of what is happening in the body with sugar. I don’t like how he starts belittling people by the way they look, Lustig might be slightly overweight, but not grossly, he could be very healthy.

  • Steverino says:

    Good interview, but I think Rich let him off a little easy. I get the “ruffle no feathers” and “everyone’s my friend” approach really let Harley get away with a lot of misinformation. A first year med student would be able to debunk many of Harley’s “facts”.

  • Another Richard says:

    I no longer watch Harley’s videos, but I’ll always be grateful that he reviewed Rich’s book because that’s how I discovered Finding Ultra and subsequently this podcast.

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    @dlinnell can you gimme some bullet points on the contradictions I made? I don’t like to contradict my own information.


  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    You metabolism and heart health don’t care if Im a fucking idiot. They just care that you look after em. I don’t give a fuck what people think about me, i just want them to take on board the latest health science so they experience a slimmer waistline, drug free vitality and fitness over 80.

    The truth will set you free Greg, but first its gonna piss you off…

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    Thanks for the support Monique. 🙂

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    I hear you Donnie.

    Sometimes people don’t want to hear the truth because they don’t want their illusionsdestroyed.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    I was talking with an overweight 3rd year med student in NYC recently. He was ‘debunking’ my claims. I kept tapping him on his buddha belly and asking him ‘oh really? vegans don’t get enough protein and bananas should be limited to 2 a day or obesity happens??”

    Modern medicine does wonders for accidents,injuries etc. When it comes to diet and lifestyle advice though,they didnt drop the ball, they never had it to start with…

    If you want advice from medical doctors then google these guys books.

    Dr Neil Barnard – diabetes
    Dr Esselstyn – heart diseaes
    Dr McDougall – MS

    Lets see if you can find any tubby first year med students to debunk these masters? 😉

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    @lee, I WORK AN OFFICE JOB too lol! Do you think I do all my computer stuff whilst riding my bike on the trails?

    #Ben Greenfield recently admitted he doesnt follow any dietary plan strictly. He just does whatever. Fair enough, but lets not use his high carb athletic performances as a yard stick of a low carb effort. Thats like me using EPO to run a 30min 10k and saying it was from bananas primarily.

    # Skinny is healthy. Anorexic aint. We got skinny from dietary choices alone. Not calorie restriction. We got toned from sport. Skinny, toned and eating healthy? That sounds like the winning combination for life. 🙂

    #Holocaust survivor is what many people refer to us on the internet. I don’t have an issue with it despite coming from a jewish family. For those that do have an issue with it, perhaps they can take it up with the people that started using that description. We do find it amusing that people in the same breath say we are ‘too skinny!’ yet they same ‘carbs make you fat!’ and ‘vegans don’t have enough energy!’.

    #skinny is here to stay. athletes are using doping products to get slimmer. models are starving to get slimmer. fat people are doing radical dangerous surgery to get slimmer. we just want to show people how to get skinny in the healthiest, tastiest and most ethical way. I guess we are criminal in that regard.

  • Kevin M. says:

    1) You state that Greenfield races high carb, and constantly changes his eating habits..He does, but he changes between ketosis (typically 50g Carb per day) and low carb (100 g carb per day). He used to race high carb, but that was 3-4 years ago. He just qualified for Kona running a 3:30 marathon at the end of an ironman all while in a low carb state.
    2) You state that Vinnie Tortorich likes to chomp on ice cream. The man lives in ketosis most of the time and has not had a single ounce of sugar (except from natural sources of rare fruit) for an entire year. Also, you stated in your video that Vinnie “Tortellini” never completed a race, when in fact he did finish the Furnace Creek 508 mile race across the desert.
    3) You state people shouldnt eat twinkies but they should dump organic sugar on their cereal if they need some carbs in the morning…I’m sure that would work great to spike people’s blood sugar levels 🙂 .. The problem with many Americans is they dont want to workout, and a dieting plan like yours would make people fat if they didnt. I myself do, I have run 8 marathons and 2 triathlons, all in low carb.
    That being said I do love Rich’s podcast and most of the guests that he has on…most of them.

  • dlinnell says:

    Hey Durianrider – I actually listened to the podcast for a second time this afternoon and I got more out of it and it made a bit more sense to me on the 2nd go-round.

    I’m really in information-gathering mode at the moment and I’ve purchased Rich’s Mind Body Green Vegan video course. I also read Vinnie Tortorich’s book and have been listening to his podcast but the whole Paleo thing doesn’t make a lot of dietary sense to me either. I know Vinnie says he’s a vegan at heart and he certainly slams down a lot of veggies but he’s definitely pushing a meat/cheese/olive oil/fat coffee agenda which doesn’t really resonate with me.

    So anyway, I’m starting to shed the meat out of my diet and so is my wife. We’re not totally there yet but for us it’s baby steps and we’re getting closer to no meat as the weeks roll on. We’re also definitely putting in a whole lot more vegetables into to our diets with veggie smoothies, salads, etc. All good there.

    I gotta say that I’m really intrigued by the fruitarian thing however, I doubt we as a family of four could ever get to that total fruit stage. I mean, the amount of fruit that Arnstein eats is just insane. He picks up fruit with a friggin’ van at a warehouse and keeps it in 6 extra refrigerators in his basement. That just seems a bit nuts to me and not very sustainable for the average joe.

    You kind of skirted the question that Rich asked about how does your day play out menu-wise. You said you have a banana smoothies, etc., etc. but realistically how much are we talking here? Also, I’m guessing there’s no veggies going on there?… What about the other nutrients found in veggies that fruits don’t contain? I mean, all that fruit sugar is fine and dandy but what about other nutrients? I’m not trying to get in your face at all, I just want to wrap my head around what you’re saying.

    What about rice? I thought white rice was bad and only brown rice in limited quantities. What about potatoes?

    I’m also a long distance road cyclist so I know what you’re saying with the 100 km to 200 km to even 300 km rides because I do that too but how much fruit do you have to stuff in your jersey to go out and smash Strava challenges all during January and February? What are you taking for in-ride fuel.

    And finally, the taboo question that everyone’s wanting to ask (especially Vinnie Tortorich): How many shits a day do you take? You must be shitting through the eye of a needle with that quantity of fruit going through you.

    Arghh!!! Help me make sense of what you’re saying dude!

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    Id like to see Robert Lustig’s echocardiogram aswell as comprehensive blood tests. Robert Lustig IS a promoter of the low carb diet. He claims ‘bacon and eggs are about as healthy as we can get’.

    Id rather be lean, fast and healthy that fat, bloated and look like I couldnt even run around the block like ‘obesity expert’ Robert ‘Tubby’ Lustig.

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    My goal as an educator is always to answer each question as clearly and objectively as possible. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify dlinnell.

    #### Vinnie’s diet involves most of ones calories coming from saturated fat. This creates heart disease and immune system breakdown. Vinnie recently just had an issue with leukemia. A diet based on fat is dangerous health wise. I won’t get started about how bad it is for athletic performance.

    #### Ive spend a few months living at Arnstein’s house in NYC. It is nuts to have that much fruit in the house. Id rather be nuts though buying amazing fruit than funding the food industries that destroy the animals, planet and people health. We are either part of the problem or part of the solution. There is no grey area there. Look up ‘Fully Raw Kristina’. She started a co-op in her garage and now its literally the BIGGEST organic fruit and veg co-op in the WORLD.

    #### My daily diet is MINIMUM 3500 cals. I try and keep sodium under 1500mg a day. Often its under 500mg. I eat 100% vegan foods. Over the year I would eat at least 90% of my calories from sweet fruits with vegan starch dishes as a back up plan to ensure I get enough carb calories daily. I do eat green vegetables when I care for them but they are not as important as fresh high quality fruit.

    I drink at least 2-3 litres of water per day. I don’t drink coffee or tea. I eat a few pounds of nuts/seeds per year. I avoid oils as much as possible. My entire dietary focus revolves around waking up with full glycogen stores and proper hydration. My sport is cycling and running and every lb extra is seconds lost. I eat this way primarily for sustained easy longterm weight loss. It also happens to be the best diet for health and the planet.

    #### White rice is fine. One of the most slimming foods on the planet behind sweet fruits. Look at the asian cultures. White refined rice 4x a day and nobody is lacing up racing flats and banging out miles on their lunch break! Anorexics live on white rice, fruits and vegetables.

    If they ate more calories, they would experience better health and performance. Eating like an anorexic but in excess of 2500-3500calories a day will turn anyone into a slim greyhound vs a starved one. Most people load their rice up with sodium. This equates to water retention. Most people load their rice up with fat and protein. This adds to water and fat retention.

    Rice is NEVER the issue. Neither is fruit, starches or refined sugars. Look at us. Look at 4 million asians..

    #### What do I eat on my 500km solo bike rides? just dates and water is my preference. Dates are the gold ticket. I rode the 1243km Paris Brest Paris in 2003 on 100$ fruit and water. NOTHING else. Fruit is always my preference. Either fresh, dried, tinned or juiced in a bottle. The simple sugars are what the brain, red blood cells, immune system and muscle run on.

    No salt pills, no caffeine pills, no other calorie source other than fruit. I rode it in 51:30 unsupported. The fastest ever unsupported ride by an Australian. I aim for 1g of carbs per kg of bodyweight per hour. Thats around 5 large dates per hour for me at approx 65kg.

    #### How many times I cut a cable per day? Around 2-3 times a day. This is best for longterm colon health. Colon cancer is epidemic in Australia. We need to get bowels moving again. I used to have chrons disease so familiar with loose stools but I don’t experience this on a high carb fruit focused vegan diet.

    What you get is typically a ‘foot long 2 inch diameter brown snake’ or a ‘soft serve icecream pile style’. This is how humans are designed to poop. We also recommend the ‘squat position’ when pooping as this further increases the bowels efficiency. Diarrhea after eating fruit just means the fruit is pushing thru old fecal matter. This is a GOOD thing and soon stops once the digestive tract has been flushed out.

    For best digestion we recommend a 100% fruit and vegetable diet. For next best we recommend eating fruits for breakfast and lunch and then having the Dr McDougall style starch dinner. Starches digest slower than fruits so putting fruits on top of them AFTER a meal of starches can be a bit uncomfortable. Animal products are void of fiber so they sit in the digestive tract causing extra bloating,gas, water retention, body weight etc.

    Fruit is the best as you eat it, digest it and then crap it out. For people wanting a flat stomach in the morning, FRUIT IS THE MAGIC FOOD! 🙂

  • Durianrider Vegano says:


    1. I call BULLSHIT on Ben running a 3:30 marathon on 100g of carbs a day at the END of an ironman. I understand you are a noob and have no access to a power meter, garmin watch or understand what it feels like to run a marathon but I will put 100k USD on it that ANY athlete will run better with full glycogen stores than depleted ones. 100k USD! How is that for some confidence?

    2. Vinnie failed to complete the 508 many times. I got lucky when he added in some carbs. You are delusional if you think ANYBODY can ride 508 whilst in KETOSIS lol!!!! If I was ever depressed, I would read claims like this cos they always make me LMFAO! 🙂

    3. I can tell you don’t know much about health when you say ‘sugar spikes your blood sugar!!’. Hey, if you eat something sweet and your blood sugar DOESNT spike then you should go to ER! What we are trying to avoid is SUSTAINED HIGH blood sugars. Get up to date and read ‘Dr Neil Barnard’s program for reversing diabetes’. Watch some of my blood sugar videos where I test my blood and show my full blood profiles. Where is Vinnie’s or Ben’s? Exactly. They don’t provide full transparency there like we do.

    3.5. You pretend that obese people are obese cos they eat a fruitarian/mcdougall style vegan diet. You are delusional (maybe its just ketosis coma) and just want to hear good things about your bad habits. Look up the fat content of twinkies. Look up the fat content of a 30 banana smoothie with 100g of sugar poured into it. The fat you eat is the fat you wear. Why am I leaner than you? Why are so many pro athletes STRUGGLING with their weight despite being PROFESSIONAL FULL TIME ATHLETES TRAINING 365? Is it their dietary choices? You better fructing believe it Kevin. 🙂

  • dlinnell says:

    Thanks for the reply man. Good answers. Ok – last thing is where do you stand on veggies? Why fruit and not veggies? It seems like a more complete diversity of nutrients from various plant sources would be a good thing. Dark leafy greens are like superfoods. So why no veggies?…

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    I do eat green vegetables. I eat more variety than 99.9% of people on the planet. I eat plant foods that most people have never heard of. I combine international plant food varieties from various cultures around the world. Its working as my blood tests are always great and I don’t take mineral supplements.

    So I do eat green vegetables. Per calorie green vegetables are the #1 source of minerals and fruits are #2. Thing is, one can eat way more fruit in a day than green vegetables. I do make green smoothies as well. Here is a fav recipe of mine.

  • dlinnell says:

    Thanks for your frank answers dude. Much appreciated.

  • Paul says:

    Durian for someone who claimed he doesn’t take things personally you spend a lot of time and energy here attacking everyone who disagrees with you. For what its worth I think you are a complete idiot and about the worst spokesman your movement could ever have. Instead of trying to present rational rebuttal you call everyone a liar. You put out absolutely ludicrous ideas that we are supposed to accept as gospel and get upset when we don’t. Frankly this is the most disappointing podcast Rich has ever done.

  • Paul says:

    Jason you quite obviously have NEVER listened to Vinnie or bothered to read any of his stuff. Stop attacking him with your assumptions. Overall I actually agree with your point, but you weaken it the same way Durian does by attacking other people’s message.

  • Ann says:

    Thank you for another informative interview, Rich! I listen to many of them repeatedly. It is fascinating that we get so passionate about food and eating, even when actual starvation or overt poisoning is not at stake! It’s like politics and religion rolled into one sticky blob.

    I’ve read both Graham and Barnard’s books, and listened to Robert Lustig and Richard Johnson. I have great appreciation from the anecdotal evidence of high performance from folks following 80/10/10 type diets, and the logic of the body preferring low-overhead food, but also by the logic & evidence behind the human-as-running-hunter theory as explained in “Born to Run”.

    I would greatly appreciate information sources that explore the physiology of the 80/10/10 diet on a metabolic level, and where the science behind researchers like Lustig and Johnson might be in error. Graham didn’t get that granular in “80/10/10”. I was so intrigued by Lustig’s metabolism process diagrams, but they don’t explain why Michael Arnstein can do what he does. Or that whole meat insulin thing…

  • lee says:

    Hi @durianridervegano:disqus,

    Thanks for the thoughtful response. I’ll try to deal with what you’ve said in order, as respectfully as possible.

    1. That’s cool you work in an office too, but I’m not convinced that 80/10/10 is healthful or safe for those of us who are more sedentary than you. In my case, I do yoga, I run a little, I walk a lot, and I’m in great shape by most standards — but I would spontaneously combust if I biked the way you do without a huge shift in my lifestyle. So until you can persuade people like me — those who are into health, but limited by time and budget, etc — I suspect 80/10/10 will remain a niche diet. I would happily be led to believe otherwise, but for now…

    2. Ben Greenfield very clearly labelled his last race a Ketogenic Experiment. I think you should read up on what he did before debating further. You’ve already pounced on him for changing his diet often, but it seems to me he is using himself as a guinea pig and trying various diets and then evaluating his performance. I respect that. If healthfulness is the goal we need people experimenting a little, or else we just wind up spewing dogma.

    3.I didn’t realize that you had been referred to as a Holocaust survivor BUT I’m not sure you should propagate that…not just because it’s potentially offensive and will turn people off your message (though it is and it will), but because it’s setting up a standard of how everyone should look that is, by most definitions, hideous and insane. Also, despite your taunting and baiting, I’m not sure I want a world where we all look like you and your GF. There are plenty of people who are extremely healthy who are not gaunt. So using thin-ness as your yardstick is dangerous, unscientific, and bound to create and magnify body-image issues in the young audience you so badly wish to convert.
    Just what we need — more twenty-something females with body issues.
    (I’m singling them out because you stated they were your core audience.)

    4. There’s so much about your message I love. People should get plenty of rest, eat more fruits and veggies, watch what people are selling them, etc. I should add, however, that sometimes we sell ourselves — that is, our personas, our egos, etc — with the same rapaciousness that people like David Wolfe sell products. In other words, just because you’re not making money doesn’t mean you’re not getting something out of all this. Attention. Meaningfulness. A messianic complex. Whatever.
    I’m not accusing you of this; I’m warning you of the pitfalls of a certain approach.
    All that said, I will buy your book the second you publish it. Just please make sure it has less sloganeering (which you are excellent at, btw) and more logic and science.
    Thanks. Peace.

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    No probs. I get a lot of questions each day and try and get back to em when I see em. 🙂

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    Its my job to stand up and spread the message mate. I don’t take it personally when faceless avatars critique it. 🙂

    Hey, about to click over 37 million views on my main youtube channel. You mad brah?

    You are welcome to your opinion mate. I just think you should speak up a bit cos not many people are gonna hear it otherwise. Start up a youtube channel and upload over 1000vids. Thats a good starting point.

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    The fatties say carbs are fattening and we need to eat more bacon..

    Stand Michael Arnstein and Doug Graham against a wall. Then put Robert Lustig and Richard Johnson against the same wall. Ask all men to strip down to their jocks.

    Judge by results vs theory…

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    I hear you on a lot of points Lee. You will love my book Im sure.

    PS: Did you know Ben Greenfield consumed coca cola and superstarch refined corn powder to ‘get enough simple sugars to finished the race’? Ben messed up when he called it a ketogenic race. I can’t believe he is charging people 10$ to find out ‘the magic ketogenic diet I used to do an ironman!’. Last time I checked coke and corn syrup powder were not on the ketogenic shopping list.

  • JasonRH says:

    Point taken Paul. I am guilty as charged.

    BUT, to call me out for never listening to Vinnie is completely false. I have listened to all of Vinnie’s appearances on the RR podcast and I know that he discussed coffee with a stick of butter and eating a lot of steak and beef. He did also discuss green smoothies as well, which ultimately left me confused as to what sort of foods/diet he was encouraging. Anyways, I am by no means an expert on Vinnie’s approach and philosophy, so maybe you can point me towards some resources of his so I can better understand where he is coming from. Not trying to be ignorant here, but I am also not pulling this info out of thin air.

  • kimmyp says:

    Hi Rich, love your podcasts, learn a lot from them & greatly appreciate & respect the work you do. Just a comment…in this podcast w/Durianrider, you mention several heavy weights in the plant-based world (T. Colin Campbell, Dr. Esselstyn & others) but you do not mention Dr. Joel Fuhrman, who in my opinion, should be #1 on anyone’s list who is naming nutritional researchers who are fact-based & who practice what they preach. Dr. Fuhrman is brilliant, authentic & passionate about nutritarianism & has helped thousands of people achieve nutritional excellence through his books (Eat to Live, Eat for Health, Superimmunity, Fasting & Eating for Health, etc.) & by way of his medical practice in NJ, blog ( & website ( I hope to hear you mention him in future podcasts & more importantly, I would love for Dr. Fuhrman to team w/you & others like you for a long term nutritarian study for athletes. My husband & I are plant-based/vegan/nutritarian endurance runners & cyclists. Thank you again for the work you do. I hope your podcasts, etc. will continue for years to come.

  • Mariana says:

    Rich, I don’t visit your website or subscribe to your Podcast, but I came over here today to hear this specific podcast with Harley. Thanks for having him on.

  • Guest says:

    As always, big fan of Rich’s podcast. Finding his podcast and then reading his book
    helped me further refine my diet. Usually I enjoy most of his guests and have
    picked up several people to research, buy their books, listen to their podcast,
    etc. But I am disappointed with this podcast. Durianrider might reach more
    people if he didn’t come across as narcissistic and argumentative. That’s fine
    that his diet works for him and being controversially helps his popularity and his
    ad revenue I am assuming he gets from his blogs/youtube channels (and will
    eventually fuel his book sales). I am glad I listened to this podcast because
    it further convinced me that I would not support any of his antics in any way. While
    I am just one person, just wanted to share that Durianrider did achieve one
    thing by being on the podcast, you convinced me not to buy your books and turn
    off anything that has your association attached to it.

  • Kevin M. says:

    Vinnie’s group on facebook is a great first start. He doesnt run it and everyone talks about his style and what is good / no good. For those that want to be Vegan doing it, there is even a Plant Powered No Sugar No Grains group.
    Basically, on Rich’s show Vinnie talked about butter coffee and how it works because it keeps you full for a long period of time but he also talked about how he didnt condone it. He does put cream in his coffee, but he does not do the butter coffee.
    Also, Vinnie’s whole diet is just don’t eat sugar, except natural sources like fruits, don’t eat grains, and eat a lot of vegetables, meat, and healthy oil.

  • Steverino says:

    None of those Dr.’s recommend your diet.


  • Steverino says:

    I don’t like Greenfield’s diet either, but dismissing his athletic accomplishments because he doesn’t use Strava is a joke. Surely you are well aware of his results since they are so easily found. It undermines your credibility when you fall back on Strava results, which as you know can be easily manipulated.

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    They recommend the same low fat ratios (sub 10% of calories) and recommend a vegan diet. I promote more fresh food content. Thats the main difference.

    What diet and lifestyle do you promote? Do you walk your talk?

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    Thanks for chiming in. Don’t feel pressure to be lean, fit, healthy and have high stamina. I understand its not for everyone. 99% of people I know do want to be slim and trim and look healthy. Thats the audience we are targeting.

    I just got some KFC vouchers in the letterbox. I don’t need em, flick me a postal address and I can shoot em off to you today brah.

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    Sorry brah, you can’t manipulate power data when using an ANT+ power meter. I rode more km in Jan than anyone on the planet. I challenge Ben or any other low carber, oh hang on, Ben doesnt call himself low carb anymore, well, I challenge the other low carbers to ride with me this Jan on strava and we do it with GPS CERTIFIED rides wearing HR monitors and power meters attached to our bikes so no ‘dodgy low carb antics’ go on.

    Im doing a podcast with Ben later this month. Tune in.

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    Furhman recommends you get your calories from a handful of walnuts, some chopped yellow squash and some celery stalks. Not sure how anyone can maintain that sort of gig longer than a few days.

    Furhman used to be Arnsteins doctor for many years. Furhman thinks fruit is fattening. I think Furhman needs to live and eat with us for a few months. 😉

  • Durianrider Vegano says:

    Vinnies diet is what we call the ‘GCGHD’ diet. GCGHD stands for ‘get cancer, get heart disease’ Vinnie already got cancer. I would be interested for him to show us a recent angiogram to show us the condition of his arteries if Vinnie wants to continue to say ‘saturated fat REVERSES heart disease!’.

    I think Vinnie has good intentions but his advice is literally killing people. Since when did bacon and eggs become a ‘superfood!’.

  • Guest says:

    Harley does not work a proper office job. All he does is troll the internet or make unprofessional, repetitive videos. He also likes to make it seem like he is a professional athlete when all he does is ride his bike and run in his spare time. By spare time, it is all the time since he was on the dole (and maybe still is) and makes money on youtube. He doesn’t make much money from his own videos. He copies viral videos or talks about famous people to get clicks. Any lazy, uneducated bum can do what he is doing. To take any of what he says seriously is a fault of the listener for not doing due diligence research.

  • Jeremy Bell says:

    lol… Rich I’m sure you already know, but just enjoy the haters, because that’s when you know you did something right. Thanks listening and putting Durianrider on the show.

  • Guest says:

    Yeah, Paul, upload viral videos that have nothing to do with your message, and spend time talking about famous people so you can get more money. His only message can be condensed into 2 minutes in ONE video. It’s very simplistic with no solid logic or science.

    And before he chimes in here to do image damage control to bully me, I have a mostly plant-based diet and eat very healthfully, without the addition of granulated sugar.

  • Rick says:

    “Healthy oil” is an oxymoron.

  • Cara says:

    Incorrect. He likes fruit!! Dr. Fuhrman recommends daily consumption of: 1 pound of raw veggies, 1 pound of cooked veggies, a minimum of 4 fresh fruits, maximum 1 cup of cooked starchy veggies, at least one cup of beans/legumes, 1 Tbsp ground flax, 1 cup plant-based milk. No animal products/dairy, no salt, no sugar.

  • Marius J says:

    What’s the name of the podcast?

  • Emilie T Evol'Vedstrength says:

    Thanks for featuring one of my biggest inspiration! I sure will be a regular listener to your amazing podcast!! Harley and Freelee’s videos/blogs converted me from paleo to vegan to now vegan 80/10/10’er. I owe them so much. I am going to sound sappy here, but people who only see agressivity and anger in Harley are not very sensitive. All I see is a message of love and respect. Thanks again and looking forward to the next podcast!

  • sylvrstar says:

    I believe that @durianridervegano:disqus has a bias toward the
    very skinny physique quite simply because it’s the ideal body type for elite grand tour cyclists, especially climbers eg: Chris Froome (height: 6ft 1” weight: 152lbs), Vincenzo Nibali (height: 5ft 11” weight: 140lbs), Rigoberto Uran (height: 5ft 8” weight:
    140lbs) and for the old school Richard Virenque one of the greatest climbers ever, 7times king of the mountains (height: 5ft 10” weight: 143lbs). Grand tour cyclists tend to eat a lot of rice even when racing (as rice cakes), so in theory is it safe to assume that this diet is an exaggerated version of an
    elite cyclists diet?

    Bananas, Rice, Fruit Juice, Super light bodytype – sounds like
    the life of a Team Sky rider. This kinda also explains why Vinnie rubs @durianridervegano:disqus the wrong way I suppose, since Vinnie is a cyclist himself but subscribes to no grains no sugars. Just guessing.

  • kimmyp says:

    Cara: You are correct. Fuhrman also includes 1 c. of whole grains. He rules out regular consumption of oils, processed foods & white flour.

    Durianrider: I disagree strongly with your comments about Dr. Fuhrman. Can you site the source for saying he says “fruit is fattening?” I have never seen this presented in his books as fact or heard him say it. Your comments are inaccurate & do not reflect what Dr. Fuhrman advocates in his books, lectures, on his website or in his blog. Have you read his books? His nutritarian diet is soundly based on accurate science & experience & is mainly comprised of fruits, vegetables, beans, nuts & seeds. I am 5’9′, weigh 129 & am a competitive long distance cyclist & runner. I have been eating what Dr. Fuhrman advocates for 3 & 1/2 years. I am 51 & am getting stronger each year due to becoming a nutritarian. Dr. Fuhrman was once a professional ice skater so he is not a stranger to athletic performance & the type of nutrition required to fuel an endurance athlete.

  • JC Harris says:

    No…you rode more km’s than anyone on the planet that uses Strava. Not everyone does “brah”.

  • JC Harris says:

    Tap me on my belly and you’d pull back a nub. Just saying.

  • JC Harris says:

    There he goes again … being everyone’s friend.

    I expected better of you too Rich. While I appreciate alternate points of view (I’m not, nor ever will be a vegan but love the opposing views) the manner in which he presents himself and his ideas (half unfounded and undocumented by the way) just alienated most of your audience. You know damn well pouring half a cup of sugar on cereal is NOT good for you …

  • JC Harris says:

    I would like to see one, just one, 300+ pound person start eating 80/10/10 and become 150 pounds. It won’t happen.

  • kimmyp says:

    “Eat to Live” 2011 revised/updated edition, page 216…”unlimited fresh fruits (at least 4 daily).”

  • JC Harris says:

    See? Asks for science and he resorts to “fatties” insult. The guys a freaking moron and a bully.

  • JC Harris says:

    Rich, as you can probably tell, the majority of the comments are negative. I think you missed the ball on this one. He may have valid points, but comes across abrasive and when confronted with scientific facts that debunk his views, resorts to name calling and belittling. He is obviously someone that has never been heavy and, much like Tortorich speaks about, believes in that “trainer mentality” of “if it works for me it has to work for you and if it doesn’t it’s YOUR fault!”. Also right there with Jillian Michaels. You lost a LOT of credibility by not calling this assclown out on his incorrect information. I hope you make up for it.

  • JC Harris says:

    Once again, misinformation. You do NOT get leukemia from diet. Open a text book.

  • kimmyp says:

    Durianrider: I disagree strongly with your comments about Dr. Fuhrman. Can you site the source for saying he says “fruit is fattening?” I have never seen this presented in his books as fact or heard him say it. Your comments are inaccurate & do not reflect what Dr. Fuhrman advocates in his books, lectures, on his website or in his blog. Have you read his books? His nutritarian diet is soundly based on accurate science & experience & is mainly comprised of fruits, vegetables, beans, nuts & seeds. I am 5’9′, weigh 129 & am a competitive long distance cyclist & runner. I have been eating what Dr. Fuhrman advocates for 3 & 1/2 years. I am 51 & am getting stronger each year due to becoming a nutritarian. Dr. Fuhrman was once a professional ice skater so he is not a stranger to athletic performance & the type of nutrition required to fuel an endurance athlete.

  • Total Flow says:

    This was a great show, as always!
    Thanks for doing this Rich and for putting in so much of your time to get this
    info out. You’ve certainly made a difference in my life and I am amazed at your
    ability to pump these things out in such good quality.

    As an aside, I just logged a
    positive review on iTunes. If you are enjoying these podcasts for free make a
    point of giving this podcast a positive review on iTunes. It will help boost
    the reach of the show, get the word out and keep it going.

  • Total Flow says:

    This was a great show, as always! Thanks for doing this Rich and for putting in so much of your time to get this info out. You’ve certainly made a difference in my life and I am amazed at your ability to pump these things out in such good quality.

    As an aside, I just logged a positive review on iTunes. If you are enjoying these podcasts for free make a point of giving this podcast a positive review on iTunes. It will help boost
    the reach of the show, get the word out and keep it going.

  • lee says:

    @jc_harris:disqus That seems like a pretty unfair criticism. If you can’t handle one podcast where Rich allows a guest to explain and explore their diet, then you don’t actually” appreciate alternate points of view” — you tolerate them when you have to. And don’t forget, Rich is genuinely interested in 80/10/10 and has had other athletes on here advocating for it, though without the fervor or delivery style of Harley.
    I actually liked the way Rich dealt with the sugar issue. He brought it up; he made it very obvious he doesn’t understand why anyone would do that, and then he let Harley explain. What more do you want — a school teacher grading every answer by every guest?
    Disagree, debate, but don’t blame the host for having a guest you can’t stand.

  • lee says:

    @jc_harris:disqus Translation: Yeah Rich, how dare you have someone on I disagree with who is abrasive. In response, I will call him an “assclown” and disparage Rich and impugn his credibility for allowing him on (even though Harley was probably the most heavily requested guest, and Rich made it VERY clear there would be controversy).
    Disagree all you want with Harley (I do), but I hope you can appreciate the irony in your childish response.

  • lee says:

    Not a helpful response.

  • JasonRH says:

    Thanks for the info, Ill check it out.

  • JasonRH says:

    Actually the so called “experts” do not know what causes leukemia in most cases, which is a possible indicator that it is caused by food. Most of the experts are too dumb to connect the dots when it comes to the connection between food and disease simply because it wasn’t in their textbooks in medical school. Medical school is a factory and a business and as a society we have put way, way too much faith in our doctors and medical experts.

    Again, I am not saying that leukemia is definitively caused by what you eat, but there is absolutely no evidence to prove that the two are not connected. Flood your body with enough toxins and you’ll probably get cancer at some point, don’t need an expert or medical journal to tell you that.

  • lee says:

    So what’s the best way for newbies to learn more about your diet, and to begin a transition?

  • jrssf says:

    I like your podcast, but not this episode. Harley is definitely not my cup of tea. I guess I can say that at least you warned us. I really prefer the podcasts with reasonable people who make their arguments via the literature and research, rather than attacking people who disagree with them. I found it a real turnoff.

  • Guest says:

    Hello Lee, I will try to be more helpful for you. I replied to that specific claim by Harley because most of us do work actual jobs that demand proper mental functioning and diet. Eating a high-sugar diet usually causes one to be antsy and mentally flighty. His “work” doesn’t require much mental capacity, and he does not recall facts correctly in his interviews or videos. He eats to fuel endurance activities which the average person simply cannot do due to time restraints and other responsibilities.

    If you want to become an endurance athlete at the expense of everything else, his diet can help short term. But let’s look at his decade-old history on the high sugar vegan diet. Since he really spends most of his time exercising off the high amount of calories it takes just to get SOME protein and fatty acids on his deficient diet in this regard, he really hasn’t achieved much athletic gain. He has actually lost a lot of muscle, and so have I when doing his diet long-term. I speak from experience and that of many others. You will lose muscle. You will also gain triglycerides in your blood, which his blood tests have shown. He cannot be a world-class athlete with his diet, and he cannot place well at all in a proper triathalon.

    He never went to university and speaks from a self-interested state, giving misinformation more than anything. I only corrected one of his many pieces of misinformation, so I do think it is helpful when you put it into perspective of his many lies. He is a detriment to the vegan culture. I advise to not take him seriously unless you only want a short-term cleanse diet, but that cannot happen in a healthful way with his addition of granulated sugar.

  • Aleks says:

    Listen, learn, and take what resonates with you – Rich Roll always says.

    Durianrider is great, he is like no other, and he gets his message through.
    Love the show, keep em coming!

  • john t says:


  • Ned says:

    Awesome stuff… As always , rich is a great interviewer and DR always brings it. If DR writes a book, I’m buying it. Thanks for the great content.

  • Ned says:

    He is living his life on his terms against the grain. You can dislike his tone, but I respect any person that does that. He makes most people uncomfortable because most people live a life through their false beliefs that tell them that their current state of affairs is OK. He crushes that belief with truth and they get scared

  • Jesus says:

    Michael Arnstein and his results disagree.

  • Guest says:

    That is debatable, especially with the short amount of time Michael’s been doing the diet. He also takes salt supplements and said that peanut butter has helped him during long races.

    At any rate, I am speaking for a much larger demographic, not one or two possible success stories. Even if Michael is doing well due to his tweaks of the strictest diet on the planet, his results do not speak for the majority of people who tried hard to make it work for them. And do you know why we tried so hard? Because we were not only gullible but desperate to heal health conditions and gain more athletic prowess. But what we got in return was more illness and weakness. One man and one man alone developed the diet that Harley and Michael have promoted–Doug Graham, an ex-chiropractor–and even his “success” is debatable. He does not take blood tests. He also acts very on edge much of the time. That doesn’t sound like a nourished person to me.

  • Monique says:

    Harley, I cannot wait to meet you and Freelee at next year’s fruit festival to thank you in person. Cheers!

  • Ugh says:

    So you don’t like one podcast and your reaction is to unsubscribe and stop listening? You should stomp up the stairs to your room and slam the door behind you while you’re at it. Grow up, open your mind and if you don’t like the free podcast complete with warnings then simply turn it off and move on.

  • Ugh says:

    “Just alienated most of your audience” talk about unfounded claims.

    Also, do you really have a problem with Rich being everybody’s friend? You’re right, Rich you should be rude to people, call them out for doing your show for free and impose your will and opinion on those who disagree with you…you know, the way that people are accusing Durianrider of being. Hey wait a second…

  • Greg Vick says:

    My favorite part is that your name is Ugh … Pussy!! It sounds like you are a piece of shit as well. Just fuck you .. The dude is a fucking idiot, and Rich is as well for having an idiot like that on his podcast. Why the fuck would he promote such a fucking dumb ass as this idiot on his podcast? Because of that, it’s done …

  • LindseyMM says:

    Love your podcast! Sure there are more negative comments than normal, but if you really look there are a lot of positive comments as well. I think this podcast had to be done, and I’m not afraid to listen to someone who is abrasive and has different views than myself. I have a tough enough skin to be able to handle it without getting my panties in a bunch (unlike some of the people that are oddly all butthurt over this – seriously GET OVER IT). I think its very cool to be accepting and to take away what you can, and disregard what you don’t like. He’s abrasive. He explained that’s his style and he explained why. I give him props for that even though that’s not who I want to be. So keep doing your thing @richroll66:disqus because your podcasts are wonderful.

  • Ugh continues says:

    Oh man…busted! I think it is a fair assessment that I am indeed a piece of shit…but back to acting like an adult:

    The dude IS an idiot, yes. You are missing my point though, I am not talking about whether or not Harley is a goon. I AM talking about you acting like a dickhead because Rich provides a solid, free, high quality resource but because 1 in 54
    guests is a guy you don’t want to hear you are acting like a spoiled teenager.

    You may not have noticed this yet but sometimes things exist in this world that we don’t fully agree with and that is ok! In fact, I have a functioning brain and free will and a working poitner finger which I often use in symphony to allow me to hit “skip” on iTunes and move on with my life.

    Hey wait a minute…I thought you left the podcast forever, unsubscribed and rejected this podcast completing yet here you are trolling away.

    Irony alert: It is often said that we hate in others what
    we hate in ourselves. People accuse Durianrider for overreacting, using inappropriate
    language and making arguments personal to prove a point…reading your post you
    have a lot in common with Durianrider’s reputation.

  • Guest says:

    Thanks for the reply but I don’t need your KFC vouchers since I eat plant based and also non GMO. But I guess I am confused why you have to respond to every comment with something snarky when people disagree with you. Good luck with your journey.

  • Ann says:

    Have you see Freelee be fat and now lean? She doesn’t look like anorexic model thin. I’ve followed them for five years and they’ve always been consistent, honest, and improved. And just because he shows off her body doesn’t make it sexist. He’s shirtless too.

  • Ann says:

    And you opinion is based on what facts?

  • Ann says:

    OOO you’re so powerful with your clicking.

  • Ann says:

    go online there are tons try Chris Randall he did it.

  • Ann says:

    I’m very glad that you’re trying and interested in going vegan. You’ll find in 6 months to a year that you will actually change your cravings and only want the good stuff, and even when a stress makes you eat, say a cheese quesadilla, it will make you sick after and become totally uneventful and that’s why Arnstein has to have all that fruit. You don’t MAKE yourself.

  • Lorra says:

    dude, he does that to try and gain viewers who might not look up anything to do with a vegan lifestyle. he does it to spread the message when people are looking for garbage on youtube, to possibly lure in some possible converts.

  • Steverino says:

    Yes I walk my talk and I happen to be a fan.

    Pure whole food plant based diet. 50 mile trail race coming up in January. 50 years old. Cholesterol lower than my IQ. Esselstyn, Barnard, Ornish, and McDougall would all approve my diet.

    I don’t shy away from fruit, but it doesn’t make up the majority of my diet. It takes many years before the effects will show, but your body will compensate for the high fruit intake for only so long.

    Plenty of healthy looking people on crap diets, so how you guys look is virtually meaningless.

  • ChrisSB says:

    Harley is awesome. Combined with Rich this podcast is the perfect blending of styles. Harley is outrageous, in your face and unapologetic and Rich is intellectual and chill and finds a way to slightly take the edges off of Harely’s ad hominem criticisms. The perfect podcast.

    Rich just continues to grow and improve as an interviewer. I see Rich evolving into the next generation Terry Gross and if he sticks with it could reach Charlie Rose status. The great thing about Rich’s style is at the core he is curious intellectual and it is somewhat apparent Rich’s reduced ego is somewhat more comfortable listening and learning and being a public person is a skill he acquired and it is not based on a natural love of the limelight.

    Most people doing podcasts have a much larger ego and enjoy bloviating. In rare cases like Rich’s you get to hear a curious, well-intentioned intellectual mind at work. This mind speaks to educate, inform and inspire and not reinforce an inflated sense of self. We’re all fortunate Rich has directed his attention in plant based fitness and nutrition space.

    The area of the plant based lifestyle which is completely understated is we as humans should not be eating for pleasure. Food scientists have developed far too much skill for humans to base eating decisions on “pleasure”.

    We as humans accept “pleasure” is not a healthy motivator in areas of sex, media consumption, alcohol and drug use and all sensational experiences but we haven’t yet figured out the food thing.

    It could be argued that watching your favorite TV show all day long with periodic breaks to sleep with prostitutes and consume any and all drugs and alcohol would provide intense sensory experiences but we all know this doesn’t lead to a healthy satisfying life.

    We need to learn the same with food. Food needs to be regarded as fuel and not an orgasmic and sensational experience. After much personal toying with all the vegan junk food options I’ve landed on a healthy goal and approach.

    Eat whatever you want and want only whole food plant options. Focus and meditate on the word “want”. Equate “want” with a long-term health strategy and not a momentary impulse.

  • guest says:

    Yes there’s a word for that: trolling.

  • Leslie says:

    You’re right, he may or may not be sexist, I don’t know.
    What I do know is he celebrates an extremely skinny body-style and anyone who doesn’t fit that mold is called a “fatty” or something equally degrading. He claims to be iconoclastic, but this body-style is precisely in keeping with the worst kind of pop-culture cliches.
    You could argue it’s about health, but there’s no scientific proof that an uber skinny frame is healthier, and in fact it may be less so, especially if the person in question were to become ill.
    As far as athletic performance goes, it would be beautiful if 80/10/10 were the panacea, but so far few athletes have thrived. Harley puts in the hours and the miles, but he’s not a top performer. Mac Danzig’s foray into 80/10/10 is just beginning, but after listening to him talk to Rich I watched the youtube video of him being clobbered (literally!) by Melvin Guillard and man oh man — I almost threw up.
    In fact, the internet is teeming with people telling their horror stories about 80/10/10. Almost everyone says the same thing: started off great, more energy, this is the answer, etc, and within a year there teeth are rotting, their hair is falling out, and they can’t perform. This isn’t me saying this, by the way — this is just what I’ve observed.
    As far as longevity goes, well…there’s zero evidence, so whoever does this diet is definitely taking a huge risk there.
    How about mental performance? Again, huge risk. But Harley doesn’t seem like the happiest or most well-adjusted person on the planet.
    Is it practical? Sure, if you live in the tropics and don’t have a job. Or if you have tons of time and energy to devote to being obsessed with finding adequate amounts of fruit.
    Is it cost effective? Everyone, across the board, admits it’s a hugely expensive way to live.
    Is it spiritually healthy? Well Harley and Freelee claim it raises your consciousness, but then they also make fun of people’s guts, troll the internet, and have alienated other 80/10/10ers with their approach to adding sugar. Even Douglas Graham has put out videos condemning Harley.
    Honestly, I don’t know him. But since listening to this interview I’ve done a ton of googling, video-waching, etc, and though I admit he and Frelee have charisma and a way with catch slogans, after awhile watching them is like watching a fruit-powered train wreck.

  • Erlich says:

    Good show but I really don’t understand what everyone is complaining about below. I thought he was rather tame. Do I care for the delivery of his message on youtube? Partly. Do I find the diet to be true? Hey man, for everyone saying “the science, the science” then post the %#&@ing science, post the link, post the link of the study and not that of some commentator. Bring out the guns! Because I hear this all the time, the science the science but these idiots don’t read the science, they don’t know one damn journal. Now do I make this request because I follow the science? NO! And neither do most, or maybe all, those who denounce being a raw vegan. So all I can say is eating like this makes me feel great. Is the science there? Who the hell cares! Do I need the science to tell me what I already know? Hell no! All I know is (among other things) is that when I take a dump it smells like bananas and with one wipe it’s gone. So if the science is out there then it’s out there but if I’m feeling great and someone wants to tell me “no, the science says…” I’m going to ask them, “Hey, how do the people of Hiroshima feel about the science?” By the time this species is through (mid-century?) what is left of mankind is going to regret the discovery of science. They’re going to say, “Ya I know religion killed a lot of people but man you know that science…” So take your science (if the study be legit) but as for me I’m going to take a walk into a Burmese Buddhist Temple where the monks have the common sense to know what we call raw vegan is the high ideal.

  • JC2469 says:

    Hang on…something doesn’t add up. Why would you eat a plant based diet if you think Harley’s message is devoid of solid logic and science?
    Which it is not by the way…read 80/10/10 which is what he essentially bases his ideas on. It references more peer reviewed scientific literature than you can shake a carrot stick at and it is quite logical. Two such examples being 1. fruits and vegetables are what man evolved to eat for millions of years before the advent of cooking, which then allowed us to eat things we couldn’t otherwise digest properly, and 2. they are what our closest relatives in the animal kingdom eat almost exclusively, on which they thrive quite nicely.
    Net/net: don’t slag the message off just because the messenger is not your favorite flavor of health vlogger. I personally love people with the no BS approach like Harley, but if you prefer a kinder gentler type try Kristina’s fully raw channel. She’s cuter than him and you might just learn something.

  • James Campbell says:

    Really? Doug Graham has been on an 80/10/10 high fruit diet for over 20 yrs and he is one of the healthiest people of his age in the world. There are many many others like him. They all seem to disprove your comments about the long term use of fruit. Don’t believe me…check him out and then read his book, 80/10/10. If you give it a real chance it will change your life.
    Also, could you please explain why fruit will eventually damage a person? Man ate it for millions of year before we started cooking things we couldn’t otherwise digest properly and it is what our closest relatives in the animal kingdom eat almost exclusively and do very well on.

  • lancemateas says:

    Absolutely loved the interview! Not a huge fan of the YouTube videos style, but loved this interview. It’s similar to how I can’t listen to Vinnie Tortorich’s podcast, but love to hear Rich and Vinnie together. I’ve followed DR off and on since back in the day when all there was was at blogspot while he travelled SE Asia eating enough durians to change his name. I also love that he is still pictured in Organic Athlete kit, same as I race in, since I knew the founder and my sister was on the board. Thanks to Bradley Saul and others, I flirted with 80-10-10 for awhile but it didn’t work for me. I prefer starch, and stick to Dr. McDougall’s program. I always get excited when DR gives props to McDougall for his 35+ years helping people, or stopping by on the McDougall forums.

  • Fully Raw says:

    Both Harley & Freelee have been demoted as pioneers from the Woodstock Fruit Festival and so you won’t be seeing them there. They were harassing and caught lying about their fellow pioneers and have even had their posts deleted from the WFF website.

    The community doesn’t need people like them who misrepresent and lie about what other pioneers are selling. They used people’s lack of knowledge about how affiliate links can work on some templates to suggest that Dan McDonald was selling supplements other than the ones he specifically linked to (which were vegan enyzmes and probiotics).

    Would be like saying, that when people click on and use their itune’s affiliate link to their app, then change their mind and go and buy a paleo diet apps instead, that this means that 30bananasaday where “selling” those paleo apps and every single other app on itunes also.

    This is the logic of these two people. Harley actually made a video where he goes through every product on the company’s website that sold the enzyme supplement which he linked to. Really makes you wanna say: ‘Carb the fcuk down, mate’ but hey, if that’s his thing, so be it and the sooner his subscribers see the real Harley and what makes him tick, the better.

    To orchestrate a smear campaign is one thing, but to do it to a guy you you are supposed to be friends with, that you have made videos with and laughed and joked with, takes a special kind of person, it really does. Oh but I guess he’s just sharing his comments and criticisms, eh.

    Nah, it’s more than that, Harley. You have a serious integrity deficiency, I’d get it looked at,

  • Sunny says:

    Say it as it is! Keep up your good work Harley. You are my inspiration (:

  • Garrett says:

    Great interview. Only watched it cause Durianrider was in it, & now I am huge Rich Roll fan! Watched it last month and have since read “Finding Ultra” and subscribe to RichRoll podcast. Decided to get rid of acid reflux w/ Fruits/Veg/Beans/Starch/Nuts. Feel better than ever. Love the podcast! And to think I only got hooked up to Durianrider when searching for David Wolfe on the internet. I live in Missouri(USA) & I’m being positively influenced by people thousands miles away, it’s awesome! U guys r infecting the global community w/ a positive health message, LOL!

  • Richard Adams says:

    Really late to this party but I just wanted to add one comment.

    Harley is as mad as a fish, and in this world we need more people like him. Actually, I wish more people would actually care about what they do, think or say more often and not just nod along with the rest of the sheep.

    Whether you agree or not he is making a noise about the unbelievable rubbish spouted by not just US food agencies, but food agencies globally. Now that with others is a good thing.

    Finally, if you’re not annoying at least 1% of the readership you’re not doing it right. I think Harley and this particular interview ticks this box.

    Great work Rich, I look forward to more.

  • Derek Myles says:

    The reason why paleo is a success: it gets you off the window diet. Your still detoxing while feeding on grassfed organic meats all day, your not eating the fat with crazy carbs or sugars. Thos are very toxic people remember. Its managable for people so addicted to unhealthy food there is no way they can go vegan from window to Paleo its a step in the right direction on a gentle transition towards plantbased.

  • Tanley says:

    And that’s exactly what u are doing now!!! Hahaha I like the truth and nothing but the truth and Harley gives that to us,if u don’t like it ,turn the channel,I for one like all the revealing info he has on here,and I love the way he calls asshats when he sees and hears them!!! Gurus are so full of shit it’s not even funny,Harley points that out,I also like the way he lives his lifestyle simple to the point and healthy,show me another guru who is not on drugs or living a lie for the buck???

  • dogulas says:

    1:12:08 to 1:12:30 is hilarious!

  • DiC says:

    A year later and this is still in my Top 5 podcasts (have listened to it 3 times). I had never heard of Durian rider before this podcast and now subscribe to his UT channel, Facebook page, bought his book and new video program. Love his advice, humor (hate the swearing)…He poured sugar on food to demonstrate sugar doesn’t make people fat, it is the fat and processed wheat that people eat with the sugar (donuts, cookies, cakes..). This podcast makes/made me want to listen to more of RR Podcasts to be introduced to more people like Harley. Sorry for people posting here how they hated his advice (I don’t get it..sleep, water, MORE calories from fruit, drug/stimulant free, live your passion…who could disagree with this?).

  • Hamish Creighton says:

    awesome podcast

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