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RRP#19: Brian MacKenzie: The Rich Roll Podcast

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According to Brian MacKenzie, most endurance & ultra-endurance athletes are doing it all wrong.

The controversial founder of CrossFit Endurance stopped by the garage to illuminate me further on his perspective — one that slays the sacred aerobic cow in favor of championing focused high intensity anaerobic work coupled with technique and functional body strength. 

Truth or Fiction?  Somewhere in between?  Let me know your thoughts in the comments section on the RichRoll.com podcast page.

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Thanks for listening and enjoy the program.

SHOW NOTES

The Talent Code: Greatness Isn’t Born. It’s Grown. Here’s How, by Daniel Coyle

Power Speed ENDURANCE: A Skill-Based Approach to Endurance Training, by Brian MacKenzie

Outside Magazine: Brian MacKenzie’s COntroversial New Approach to Marathon Training

CrossFit Endurance

Brian MacKenzie on Twitter: @iamunscared

Brian MacKenzie on Facebook

  • http://www.facebook.com/anthony.louis.737 Anthony Louis

    “you can not out preform poor diet.” Great talk!

  • Brian

    Rich Roll dives right in with Brian on this poddy. Big of Rich to bring on the controversial guest to discuss the Cross Fit culture. My take away was that CF can work well with endurance training for specific muscle and fiber development, but it would seem to be an off season focus rather than in season for endurance athletes… and no heart rate monitor Brian?? Not much discussion on nutrician or diet. Seems that was a smart choice based on Brian’s take on cholesterol.

  • Andy Gowans

    Thanks for another great Podcast Rich. Much appreciated. Loved Finding Ultra so for those of you that have not bought it it’s well worth doing so.

    I really like non mainstream thinking and challenging beliefs. I think Brian does this and adds value. However the “truth” sometimes lies somewhere in the middle and the science and best performer in any field are worth studying. There is no one that I know of that performs at an elite level in endurance sports that does not do significant volume. And no not the genetically gifted outlier that goes 9:30 on 8hrs a week in an IM. Not those people. The people that go 7:50 to 8:10. Those people. Most of them ALREADY do the functional strength work plus they do big volume training. That seems to be the recipe for elite level performance. Now if you just want to finish and ultra or IM sure you can do it on functional training and minimum volume BUT it’s not what the fastest people are doing AND Faster is Faster.

    I would like someone to show me a double blind study that shows that fat is a superior fuel source to carbs for endurance sports performance DURING an event. Tim Olsen the Western States winner was mentioned as a low carb guy. Yes he seems to eat less carbs then the traditional endurance diet but guess what he used during this winning run – gels. Why? Because the brain and rest of the body needs glucose to function properly.

    Thanks again.

  • Rich

    Rich, Thanks for another outstanding podcast. I’ve been following Brian’s programming for many years and as a 52yr old strength and endurance athlete, he has made me a better and more efficient athlete. I’ve been a runner for over 37 years, mostly with a heavy, plodding, heal to toe gate. You were able to hear me coming a mile way, that’s how hard I would hit the ground and it wasn’t until I started listening to Brian’s methodology, his technique ques and training regimen, did I become a more proficient and faster runner. At 52, I’m faster than I was at 22.

    His strength training as well as CF’s has developed my overall fitness levels to where my triathlons are also done more efficiently, and I spending about a third of the time training that I use to do.

    Not being a high school runner, nor a college runner, I am one of those self taught athletes who has always experimented with different methodologies in order to better myself and Brian is the only program that actually taught me (through videos and his web site) that my technique to running was all wrong. He was correct and today I am a better athlete for it.

    Thank you.
    Rich.

  • Rich

    Rich, By the way, there’s a runner in my community who is running a marathon a day for 366 consecutive days, which he started on Jan 1st. Today he will have completed 49 consecutive marathons. He has ridden his bike several ties from Miami to Alaska and back.
    His purpose is raising awareness for those suffering from epilepsy, that his son suffers from. He blogs each run. You may want to contact him for a future show.

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.barnoski.7 John Barnoski

    Rich, as a triathlete who subscribes to the Zone 2 theory of training as comprising 70% of my workload, as well as someone who belongs to a CrossFit Box and has seen improvements across the board from CrossFit, I was really looking forward to this podcast, and you guys delivered. No disrespect to prior guests, but this was your best episode yet. As someone who has tried unsuccessfully to explain the benefits of CrossFit to my Triathlon friends, and visa versa, I now have a resource to refer them to, which pretty much lays out the respective argument about as well as you can do it. Regardless of which “side” you’re on, I can’t imagine anyone listening to this episode and not only walking away with a better understanding of the benefits of each approach, but some major respect for both you and Brian for the way you conducted yourselves. It’s amazing how much you can learn when the host and guest aren’t constantly interrupting each other and trying to outdo one another. Major props to you and Brian.

  • http://twitter.com/offgridchris chris york

    Mr Roll, once again an amazing podcast. I’m just starting my journey to ultra and I’m plant based and zone 2 thanks to you. What amazes me is the adaptability of the human body. It would seem you could eat a clean in processed diet (with or without meat) and either mildly stress the body for a long time or a lot for a short time and you get the same result. It shows why humans live from pole to pole. Eating what ever is available. What doesnt work is processed food and repeated zone 3/4. This is what I did when I was in my 20s and after 4 years training I was spent and with chronic fatigue. Now in my 40s I bet I surpass the times I achieved in my 20s. Live long my friend. Plants.

  • http://www.facebook.com/KevinBHansen Kevin Hansen

    What would Maffetone say?

  • NateM

    Another great, great podcast! First I’ve heard of CrossFit Endurance. Looking forward to applying some of the CrossFit Endurance principles to all I’ve been learning about endurance training since reading Finding Ultra!

  • Chris

    Soooo glad, I stumbled on this episode on my commute. Fantastic comportment and eloquence exhibitted from both gentlemen. Based on your intro, Rich, I was bracing for a smackdown disagreement, but it never came unless you count the very end. Anyway, I’m looking forward to you opening back up that fat discussion and explaining the possible strangeness of rosy blood work numbers masking what x-rays may reveal as risky eating.

  • http://twitter.com/PeteyPlants Petey Plants

    Rich, I had a heart attack at age 31 in the weight room 11 yrs. ago. I was 6’1″ 195 lbs. ripped, lifelong athlete, former college baseball player, good diet, normal cholesterol. A picture of perfect health. I had a plaque rupture in my RCA, due to “overexertion” according to my Cardio. They put in a stent and then they put me on Lipitor, Toprol, blood thinners, my life went to hell for a couple years mostly due to the meds I firmly believe. That’s a whole other story though.
    My point is this CrossFit crap can blow up your heart. I was doing similar stuff and it happened to me.
    Zone 2 all the way for me baby! You da man Rich.
    @twitter-1198463731:disqus

  • http://www.facebook.com/ryan.guthmiller.9 Ryan Guthmiller

    So this is the teaser….is the full podcast out yet?

    • richroll66

      Yes Ryan – click the blue/orange “play” button above the video pane to play or download directly from this page. otherwise you can subscribe on iTunes (click the banner ad above)

  • http://www.facebook.com/jenny.smeny Jenny Smeny

    I am loving your podcast and the variety of guests you feature. I having been closely following the low carb/paleo diet debate and I just can’t wrap my brain around it. I was a pretty fit athlete and yoga practitioner eating mostly vegetarian diet and I could not loose those last pesky pounds I had gained after having my twin sons (13 years ago). When I switched to a whole foods plant based diet I not only effortlessly lost the weight, but I have to maintain effort not to loose any more! The plant based diet has done wonders for my yoga practice and energy. I guess it is personal preference but I just couldn’t stomach drinking butter with my coffee.

  • http://twitter.com/AC_Blink Alicia Corbett

    You are right on, Rich, regarding the avoidance and prevention of heart disease through nutrition. I would love to see a study of CrossFitters over a 10 year and 20 year time period and how the Paleo diet extends or decreases life-span (I suppose we’ll have to wait several more years to get it if people are still sustaining themselves on Paleo by then). I believe your guest needs to contact Dr. Caldwell Essylsten to learn a bit (lot) more about cholesterol in documented medical studies. C’mon…the one thing Paleo supporters cannot defend is how the nutrition (i.e., meat with cholesterol and saturated fat) they choose to follow will cause chronic illness. Many CrossFitters are most likely not consuming as many nutrient-dense vegetables as your guest either. He did a good job speaking on functional fitness even though I personally feel too many CrossFitters take the heavy weight lifting beyond what is needed to be “functional.” It was obvious he was reaching when he spoke about medical studies/cholesterol/nutrition. I am not interested in seeing a diet craze that helps CrossFitters gain strength in the short term spread to average Americans. There’s a real healthcare crisis for everyone, including athletes, that needs to be addressed with plant-based nutrition. Period. I wish the CrossFit folks would follow what John Hinds is doing with Monkey Bar Gym. Functional fitness + plant-based nutrition. Win-win. Thanks for the Podcast between these two camps!

  • Jim Newell

    I may be paraphrasing, but Rich said, “Every workout should have a purpose.”

    I’m not sold on this absolute. I think we should all build in a day or days or maybe even just one time out regularly that is not for a “workout.” In this vein, I think we should insert some of Tim VanOrden’s philosophy into our lives. It shouldn’t just be a “workout” with a “purpose;” it should be just something we do to feel good and be a part of the world. Get off the track and out of the gym. Take a recovery day and just walk out in the forest or even at a local park or beach. Get away from mechanized training. We have souls that exist outside of heart monitors, power meters, GPS, among other products that are pushing us into becoming amalgamations of human and cyborg features. The soul needs to be fed as well. I’m no “hater” of technology, but I am really in it for my body, soul and spirit.

    Here’s the beauty of it all:
    On Wednesday morning, I headed out for a pre-dawn run on my local trails. Work’s been crazy, so I have to get on it really early, but at this time of year, it doesn’t get light until about 6:30 or later. For me, I’d rather run with a headlamp than drive my truck to the gym to run on a treadmill. Off I went. About half way through my run, I heard (no headphones) and felt the flapping wings of a bird. I knew immediately it was too early for any bird other than an owl. It headed back into the tree cover, but dive-bombed me again after a few seconds. I think he/she was checking out this weird light-emanating creature running through the woods. This time the owl flew directly over me head and perched on a tree branch about 10-12 feet up and just stared at me. I stopped dead in my tracks and took the time to say good morning and thank you to this beautiful little Screech Owl. Arguments aside, there is no way to experience such beauty and connection to our world on a treadmill in a climate-controlled building of brick and mortar.

    • richroll66

      Jim – I agree with you. But I would submit that this is also a specific “purpose” – in other words, the purpose of this run is just to go out, get lost, be present, breathe and enjoy – as opposed to some other purpose. I highly recommend this and do it often!

      • Jim Newell

        Awesome. I know exactly what you mean. I guess “purpose” is a bit ambiguous in many ways. I do plenty of “purposeful” training for many reasons, but I will never forget the true roots of what I do. Just training the body will never be enough. Just training the mind will never be enough. There is much more to the holistic aspects of intersecting with the world in which we navigate as stewards of ourselves and the world(s) we embrace.

        Best,
        Jim

  • http://twitter.com/KaiRanabargar Kai Ranabargar

    Wow, what a great episode – this one was fantastic. Kudo’s to Rich for inviting someone onto the show who has a totally different perspective and then engaging in a productive, objective discussion. Another key takeaway for me was that Brian doesn’t deserve the bad rap he’s been getting – he is a visionary and his objective is to help people perform better with less risk of injury.
    I plan to listen to this episode multiple times – the content is that good…

  • http://www.facebook.com/kevin.burnett.984 Kevin Burnett

    Great Podcast! Glad I listened to it because it showed Brian in a completely different light than the things I’ve read.
    I’ve had ITBS issues my whole adult life and I was very interested in the discussion about skills, form, and strength and how they relate to injury. The problem (for me at least) is finding someone who is qualified to help you.
    Not sure if Brian will see this, but I would be interested in hearing if he knows of any people he would consider able to perform the type of analysis he talks about? I live in the San Francisco Bay Area.

  • http://www.facebook.com/email.luis.morales Luis A. Morales

    Rich, I’ve listened to [almost?] all of your podcasts, and this one ranks way up there. I came out with a new perspective and respect for CrossFit, and it validated the respect I already have for you and for your podcast. THANK YOU!

    I think there is a lot of validity to the idea of supplementing traditional zone training with strength exercise — the trick is to find someone who actually knows what they are doing to coach you. Anecdotally, I know that my best up-hill race performances were when I was doing a lot of leg presses many years ago.

    On a broader note, I believe what makes your podcast unique and (at least for me) worth listening, is the sense of curiosity that you bring to it. You’ve had great reviews in the past when you’ve interviewed this or that guest, or when you’ve broached certain topics. But, in my opinion, it’s not necessarily that the guest or the topic are always exceptional (which many of them have been, BTW), it is that you approach them from the perspective of someone who’s trying to learn. You accept some things, but challenge others. It is this dynamic that makes your podcast powerful. When you do this, I feel, you place yourself in the position many of us are in — not experts on nutrition, spirituality, or athleticism, but just people looking for authentic sources of information, trying to improve our lives. Please keep it up! and thank you for sharing your experience and your views. I know what you are doing takes a lot of work!!

  • Andrew Ferguson

    Rich,

    Enjoyed the podcast. Thought this would be appropriate relative to discussion towards the end.

    WORLD RENOWNED HEART SURGEON SPEAKS OUT ON WHAT REALLY CAUSES HEART DISEASE

    We physicians with all our training, knowledge and authority
    often acquire a rather large ego that tends to make it difficult to
    admit we are wrong. So, here it is. I freely admit to being wrong. As a
    heart surgeon with 25 years experience and having performed over 5,000
    open-heart surgeries, today is my day to right the wrong with medical
    and scientific fact.

    I trained for many years with other
    prominent physicians labeled “opinion makers.” Bombarded with
    scientific literature, continually attending education seminars, we
    opinion makers insisted heart disease resulted from the simple fact of
    elevated blood cholesterol.

    The only accepted therapy was
    prescribing medications to lower cholesterol and a diet that severely
    restricted fat intake. The latter of course we insisted would lower
    cholesterol and heart disease. Deviations from these recommendations
    were considered heresy and could quite possibly result in malpractice.

    It Is Not Working!

    These recommendations are no longer scientifically or morally
    defensible. The discovery a few years ago that inflammation in the
    artery wall is the real cause of heart disease is slowly leading to a
    paradigm shift in how heart disease and other chronic ailments will be
    treated.

    The long-established dietary recommendations have
    created epidemics of obesity and diabetes, the consequences of which
    dwarf any historical plague in terms of mortality, human suffering and
    dire economic consequences.

    Despite the fact that 25% of the
    population takes expensive statin medications and despite the fact we
    have reduced the fat content of our diets, more Americans will die this
    year of heart disease than ever before.

    Statistics from the
    American Heart Association show that 75 million Americans currently
    suffer from heart disease, 20 million have diabetes and 57 million have
    pre-diabetes. These disorders are affecting younger and younger people
    in greater numbers every year.

    Simply stated, without
    inflammation being present in the body, there is no way that cholesterol
    would accumulate in the wall of the blood vessel and cause heart
    disease and strokes. Without inflammation, cholesterol would move freely
    throughout the body as nature intended. It is inflammation that causes
    cholesterol to become trapped.

    Inflammation is not complicated —
    it is quite simply your body’s natural defense to a foreign invader
    such as a bacteria, toxin or virus. The cycle of inflammation is perfect
    in how it protects your body from these bacterial and viral invaders.
    However, if we chronically expose the body to injury by toxins or foods
    the human body was never designed to process, a condition occurs called
    chronic inflammation. Chronic inflammation is just as harmful as acute
    inflammation is beneficial.

    What thoughtful person would
    willfully expose himself repeatedly to foods or other substances that
    are known to cause injury to the body? Well, smokers perhaps, but at
    least they made that choice willfully.

    The rest of us have
    simply followed the recommended mainstream diet that is low in fat and
    high in polyunsaturated fats and carbohydrates, not knowing we were
    causing repeated injury to our blood vessels. This repeated injury
    creates chronic inflammation leading to heart disease, stroke, diabetes
    and obesity.

    Let me repeat that: The injury and inflammation in
    our blood vessels is caused by the low fat diet recommended for years
    by mainstream medicine.

    What are the biggest culprits of
    chronic inflammation? Quite simply, they are the overload of simple,
    highly processed carbohydrates (sugar, flour and all the products made
    from them) and the excess consumption of omega-6 vegetable oils like
    soybean, corn and sunflower that are found in many processed foods.

    Take a moment to visualize rubbing a stiff brush repeatedly over soft
    skin until it becomes quite red and nearly bleeding. You kept this up
    several times a day, every day for five years. If you could tolerate
    this painful brushing, you would have a bleeding, swollen infected area
    that became worse with each repeated injury. This is a good way to
    visualize the inflammatory process that could be going on in your body
    right now.

    Regardless of where the inflammatory process occurs,
    externally or internally, it is the same. I have peered inside
    thousands upon thousands of arteries. A diseased artery looks as if
    someone took a brush and scrubbed repeatedly against its wall. Several
    times a day, every day, the foods we eat create small injuries
    compounding into more injuries, causing the body to respond continuously
    and appropriately with inflammation.

    While we savor the
    tantalizing taste of a sweet roll, our bodies respond alarmingly as if a
    foreign invader arrived declaring war. Foods loaded with sugars and
    simple carbohydrates, or processed with omega-6 oils for long shelf life
    have been the mainstay of the American diet for six decades. These
    foods have been slowly poisoning everyone.

    How does eating a simple sweet roll create a cascade of inflammation to make you sick?

    Imagine spilling syrup on your keyboard and you have a visual of what
    occurs inside the cell. When we consume simple carbohydrates such as
    sugar, blood sugar rises rapidly. In response, your pancreas secretes
    insulin whose primary purpose is to drive sugar into each cell where it
    is stored for energy. If the cell is full and does not need glucose, it
    is rejected to avoid extra sugar gumming up the works.

    When your full cells reject the extra glucose, blood sugar rises producing more insulin and the glucose converts to stored fat.

    What does all this have to do with inflammation? Blood sugar is
    controlled in a very narrow range. Extra sugar molecules attach to a
    variety of proteins that in turn injure the blood vessel wall. This
    repeated injury to the blood vessel wall sets off inflammation. When you
    spike your blood sugar level several times a day, every day, it is
    exactly like taking sandpaper to the inside of your delicate blood
    vessels.

    While you may not be able to see it, rest assured it
    is there. I saw it in over 5,000 surgical patients spanning 25 years who
    all shared one common denominator — inflammation in their arteries.

    Let’s get back to the sweet roll. That innocent looking goody not only
    contains sugars, it is baked in one of many omega-6 oils such as
    soybean. Chips and fries are soaked in soybean oil; processed foods are
    manufactured with omega-6 oils for longer shelf life. While omega-6’s
    are essential -they are part of every cell membrane controlling what
    goes in and out of the cell – they must be in the correct balance with
    omega-3’s.

    If the balance shifts by consuming excessive
    omega-6, the cell membrane produces chemicals called cytokines that
    directly cause inflammation.

    Today’s mainstream American diet
    has produced an extreme imbalance of these two fats. The ratio of
    imbalance ranges from 15:1 to as high as 30:1 in favor of omega-6.
    That’s a tremendous amount of cytokines causing inflammation. In today’s
    food environment, a 3:1 ratio would be optimal and healthy.

    To
    make matters worse, the excess weight you are carrying from eating
    these foods creates overloaded fat cells that pour out large quantities
    of pro-inflammatory chemicals that add to the injury caused by having
    high blood sugar. The process that began with a sweet roll turns into a
    vicious cycle over time that creates heart disease, high blood pressure,
    diabetes and finally, Alzheimer’s disease, as the inflammatory process
    continues unabated.

    There is no escaping the fact that the more
    we consume prepared and processed foods, the more we trip the
    inflammation switch little by little each day. The human body cannot
    process, nor was it designed to consume, foods packed with sugars and
    soaked in omega-6 oils.

    There is but one answer to quieting
    inflammation, and that is returning to foods closer to their natural
    state. To build muscle, eat more protein. Choose carbohydrates that are
    very complex such as colorful fruits and vegetables. Cut down on or
    eliminate inflammation- causing omega-6 fats like corn and soybean oil
    and the processed foods that are made from them.

    One tablespoon
    of corn oil contains 7,280 mg of omega-6; soybean contains 6,940 mg.
    Instead, use olive oil or butter from grass-fed beef.

    Animal
    fats contain less than 20% omega-6 and are much less likely to cause
    inflammation than the supposedly healthy oils labeled polyunsaturated.
    Forget the “science” that has been drummed into your head for decades.
    The science that saturated fat alone causes heart disease is
    non-existent. The science that saturated fat raises blood cholesterol is
    also very weak. Since we now know that cholesterol is not the cause of
    heart disease, the concern about saturated fat is even more absurd
    today.

    The cholesterol theory led to the no-fat, low-fat
    recommendations that in turn created the very foods now causing an
    epidemic of inflammation. Mainstream medicine made a terrible mistake
    when it advised people to avoid saturated fat in favor of foods high in
    omega-6 fats. We now have an epidemic of arterial inflammation leading
    to heart disease and other silent killers.

    What you can do is
    choose whole foods your grandmother served and not those your mom turned
    to as grocery store aisles filled with manufactured foods. By
    eliminating inflammatory foods and adding essential nutrients from fresh
    unprocessed food, you will reverse years of damage in your arteries and
    throughout your body from consuming the typical American diet.

    Dr. Dwight Lundell is the past Chief of Staff and Chief of Surgery at
    Banner Heart Hospital , Mesa , AZ. His private practice, Cardiac Care
    Center was in Mesa, AZ. Recently Dr. Lundell left surgery to focus on
    the nutritional treatment of heart disease. He is the founder of Healthy
    Humans Foundation that promotes human health with a focus on helping
    large corporations promote wellness.

  • Paul

    Rich at the end Brian mentioned that he read Gary Taubes and that his book/research was essentially the basis of his belief that Saturated Fat is not the “bad guy”. There is a very comprehensive set of videos on Youtube that systematically goes through Gary Taubes book and shows that the studies he quotes are at least bad science and at most being totally taken out of context by Gary. The first video is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QImWYirF0es The series goes for a few hours but it is well worth a watch.

  • sylvrstar

    After listening this awesome podcast… I think a great guest would be (even if it’s over skype) Jonas Colting from sweden, he has also done Ultraman and I read his blog a lot also. He has very interesting thoughts on training, Nutrition and also criticisms of the crossfit approach to fitness. He seems to be a very nice individual aslo.

  • English Bob

    Brian Mackenzie is the man! best eposode yet -would be awesome if you got Brian back on to discuss his background and diet further. Love the podcast. Julie is a babe! -so bring back the co-host also to discuss different forms of meditation. Good job Rich.

  • Kelly Mahoney

    I appreciate Brian’s Romanov background and Pose coaching. The Pose method helped me improve my running form a few years ago. But I’m with Rich on LSD and cholesterol. Arguments such as Anthony Colpo’s Cholesterol Con haven’t convinced me that cholesterol is meaningless in heart disease. There’s been too much research that shows the correlation between saturated fat, cholesterol and heart disease. I know this isn’t a black and white issue and you can’t say saturated fat CAUSES heart disease, but very little in science is black and white and we have to rely on statistics to lead the way.

  • Chris in Springfield, GA

    Rich, I knew nothing about Crossfit prior to this interview and I can’t thank you enough for your interview with Brian. He is extremely well spoken and I came away from this with a ton of respect for the guy and an appreciation for what he’s doing and his accomplishments. I also feel that I got some answers to some lingering questions of my own…I certainly intend to begin doing more strength and core training and paying attention to “correct” movement as opposed to moving and training without a purpose. I am a relatively new runner (been a lifelong martial artist and fighter but at 41 I’ve had to quit fighting, so looking for a new adventure) with a goal of working up to a marathon by the end of 2013 so I’m looking for all the help I can get. This was an EXTREMELY informative interview and I got a lot out of it. Thank you so much for the diversity of information that you provide here. Keep up the good work.

  • http://twitter.com/LifeThruEndure LifeThroughEndurance

    Rich, I’ve loved all your podcasts and this one was particularly interesting. It had me asking a lot of questions and delving more into the strength training that I do as a triathlete. I did Ironman Arizona in 2011 and although I finished, I wasn’t happy with the time (are we ever happy?!) and felt that it was my muscles that really gave out on me rather than my endurance. I feel like I’m a small person who isn’t very strong and that my muscles can’t support what my heart can do. So I’ve wanted in this off-season to do more strength training, but have grown frustrated b/c my coach seems to just prescribe workouts that would maintain the strength I have instead of build more strength. So a lot of what Brian was saying in terms of functional strength appeals to me; however, I also just finished listening to the Ben Greenfield podcast and feel like there are a lot of areas to be explored between these two guys. Greenfield is so smart and i loved your podcast with him too. I also think you asked Brian some great questions; but, I’d love to hear the two of them on a podcast to debate various issues, like Zone 2 (which Ben espouses and Brian casts off). Plus, I’d like to know the areas where these 2 have common ground, e.g., it seems that they both agree on functional strength training and a much shorter endurance race training schedule in terms of weekly hours. I think a podcast with these 2 would be very helpful and serve to clear up some of the confusion between these two approaches. It’d also help people like me find the best way to marry these two approaches.

    Thanks for your awesome work with these podcasts!! I love that you bring people from differing views and not just your own..that’s the only way we can all grow!

  • http://www.byronseyeview.com/ @akaTGIF on Twitter

    @richroll66:disqus First time listener here – WOW! This is “cant live without content” my friend! I’m broke but left you a small Paypal donation last week.

  • http://www.facebook.com/aaronolson82 Aaron Olson

    Rich, this was a great podcast. If you want a MD’s perspective on the high fat issue you can check out the interview I did with running legendDr. Tim Noakes, MD. He says that fat is good for us, for years he was a low fat advocate but changed his mind when he began to see health improvements ny following a high fat diet. http://paleorunner.podbean.com/2013/03/20/tim-noakes-paleo-diet-hydration-central-governor/

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  • Drew

    Hey Rich, as one of those athletes who squeezes in workouts with whatever spare time I have, this podcast was very enlightening. I am definitely at that point where I feel I’ve plateaued. To pick up my game to the next level should I look into finding a coach or keep at it on my own, focusing on zone training (which I’ve never heard until this podcast)? Going strong on veggie power for 6 months! -Drew

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  • Shannon

    Love this dialog, but what a tease. Still searching for vegan gel replacements, you almost got to it. Your book mentioned avocado sandwiches and coconut water, is that really the answer for refueling on the go?